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FULL TRANSCRIPTION BELOW:
VERTEX:
Oh, thank you. So welcome, Doug and James, thank you so much for being on our podcast, The Creative Metaverse. We’re actually shooting this live on location, the Live Oak Brewing company in Austin, Texas. So we are on the loading dock.
Speaker 2:
[inaudible 00:00:30].
VERTEX:
If you hear a keg falling or an airplane flying over that’s because we’re right here on location.
James:
That’s a great place to be on a Friday. I have to say.
VERTEX:
Right.
DOUG:
If you’re going to be somewhere, that’s a good place to be on a Friday.
VERTEX:
Yeah, exactly. Well, we wanted part of this podcast is we’re in Austin, Texas. We really wanted to highlight all that Austin is and make that part of it. So doesn’t get any more Austin than the place that brews local beer.
James:
That’s amazing.
VERTEX:
Yeah. And it’s really beautiful actually in here. So anyways, welcome. Welcome. Welcome.
James:
Thank you so much.
VERTEX:
Doug and James, I was hoping we could just kind of start off with a little bit about your background in the fashion space. And if you can take us on the journey of how you got to affluent and super popular and the rest of it.
James:
Well, it’s kind of a little bit of a long story, but the short of it is I’m actually Texas born and bred and I was working as a photographer in Dallas and I ended up moving to New York and working for some of the big photographers in the world and assisted them. My first client was Marcus. And then that just kind of took off and started working for everybody from these little L’Oreal to all the big kind of branding companies. Neiman’s really taught me one thing is how to brand visually. I have one of the longest running records at Neiman for branding visually. So when you do a shoot for Neiman, it’s composed of anywhere from 12 to 18 shots and the vendor pays for those shots. So the vendor has to approve the shot and the creative director has to approve the shot. So I was one of the few photographers that had a perfect vendor approval writing. So, it really taught me what everything I know about, about branding. It comes from Neiman’s background.
VERTEX:
Specifically luxury branding, right?
James:
Right. Specifically luxury branding. Where you have to get every single little detail right. Like the tiny details. The tiny details in big things. The big brands what consist you talk about it doesn’t matter if you’re a small brand or a big brand, you have to have cohesiveness. When you get into the big styles, you have to look into like hair, nails, a photographic look, a pose, like we had some brands that had very specific poses that you had to stick to, which is a little bit kind of strange, and you have to just kind of work all that together and work. So you have to work to make the brand image look like the brand, and then you have to make it look like a photographic story that works together. Then you have to do that all in a 12 hour day. So it’s kind of a little crazy thing.
James:
So you start off in a white box, much like this little room right here, and then you decorate it and you create an image that reflects the brand. That image is the most important thing and that’s why we got… Excuse me, after 13 years of working for Neiman, we were asked to start Amazon fashion, which we started under the name of MyHabit. At the time Amazon was blackballed from all the fashion companies they couldn’t even get… After fashion week, they couldn’t even get in to see the collections. So what we did was work with Amazon to create a brand called MyHabit and they basically just gave us a blank checkbook and said, “We don’t know how to shoot and we want to know, we want to learn how to shoot for luxury brands.” Well, and
VERTEX:
Basically, sorry to interrupt you, but none of the luxury brands wanted to work with Amazon because why?
James:
Well, this is 2013, in 2011, 2010-2011. Amazon was a bluebar, the logo and just product of white and [crosstalk 00:04:46] yeah. They had no values.
DOUG:
They cut off the looks like at the wrist for wristwatch or there was really no atmosphere to the images and whatnot that they were shooting.
JAMES:
Right. And it made the brands feel like were selling at Costco or something, right? Like it’s not-
James:
I mean, when you take a Prada shirt and you photograph it on Hawaii, and then you take a Banana Republic shirt looks very similar, photograph it exact same way and put them side by side, they look too much the same. One’s $30, one’s $300. So Amazon wanted, I mean, all brands want their products to be represented properly, so they don’t want to be put… I mean Prada wouldn’t be put in on a website that looks like Costco. So our mission was to change the way that Amazon looked at in media, and for a giant corporation to do that, took a lot of work, let me tell you.
James:
So we came in and basically we worked autonomously, that was the only way I would take the job. We created lookbooks and just pumped out images, the same manner that we had been doing for Neiman for [inaudible 00:06:02].
VERTEX:
And that was such an important part of these brick and mortar stores. I mean, even what five, seven years ago I mean Barney’s had the book, Neimans had a book and this is predominantly they would create their own magazine… We got a truck backing up into the loading duck. But they would create this essentially a magazine for their customers, ship it out to them, and that was part of what sold it to them. And of course they had their online photography, but for Amazon to be able to kind of create the same atmosphere and make it a destination place. I mean, part of why you buy a Prada shirt is everything that goes into it. It’s not just the shirt as well. It’s the experience of going into the store.
DOUG:
Experience of going into the store. And it’s the story you tell to your customers as well. So how going through that process with them.
VERTEX:
And then even the Neiman’s box you get when it comes to your house, like all of that is part of it. So to get someone to buy that same item on Amazon is going to take the creative work of your guys’ eyes to really create that.
James:
I wouldn’t say Amazon is anywhere close to where a luxury brand should be, but they are much more branded. If you looked at Amazon from 2010 when we started, to Amazon now, it’s a brand consumer destination, and it’s literally a website you could spend hours on and just kind of click through and shop. It’s not the luxury store, but it does carry brand messages and it’s a form of entertainment.
VERTEX:
Yes, for sure. And we don’t have those books anymore. I mean, as these retailers are shutting down and going out of business, it’s like we got to make those images online.
DOUG:
I miss those Christmas catalogs, those holiday catalogs [inaudible 00:07:56]. Remember those? Those were amazing.
James:
Yeah.
VERTEX:
Yeah, yeah.
James:
What’s surprised me is that people have really stepped up and the technology has changed so much that you can take almost as good of a picture with an iPhone as you can with, back then, [inaudible 00:08:17] camera.
DOUG:
It’s scary.
James:
We’re shooting with these insane [inaudible 00:08:18] with this $70,000 back on it, and it’s just kind of insane now to think [inaudible 00:08:29].
DOUG:
We actually did a photo shoot before that, before the slogan came out, shot on an iPhone.
James:
That actually was our slogan.
DOUG:
We actually did. We knew the woman that was one of the heads of marketing in Apple. We got to know her pretty well and so James had an idea, we went to the studio, he shot the model on the iPhone, and then I shot him shooting the model and we [inaudible 00:08:57] but like with Amazon was just so busy at the time that we couldn’t really follow up.
James:
[crosstalk 00:09:03] follow up with [inaudible 00:09:04].
DOUG:
We didn’t follow up with them. They used it. That’s amazing. Yeah.
James:
They went ahead to use that slogan.
VERTEX:
Right. Right, right. So then after you did Amazon and MyHabit, so then take us into the foray of how you got to Atfluence.
DOUG:
I was going to say, he’s been on one really cool thing that he does, which is, or has done in the past too, which is he shot a lot of really cool celebrities, so [inaudible 00:09:34].
James:
All different.
Speaker 2:
Really cool. I’ve got to work on a few of those shoots because we’ve been working together now for 10 years, but he’s done some really cool stuff as far as what he’s shot in the campaigns he’s worked on as well.
James:
But what’s amazing though now is that, with an iPhone, I mean, when I got an iPhone, I think it was an iPhone 4. I got it. And I was like, “Holy shit, this takes really good images and enough that I can blow up to nine by 12 [inaudible 00:10:09] film as a portfolio.” And that’s what we did. We blew them up and send them to Apple. And they were like, “Wow, I can’t believe that this is from an iPhone.” That’s where the slogan came from. But with an iPhone, you can create images that look like Neiman’s from the book. So you have these bloggers, not bloggers, that’s dates me now, that Instagram influencers that are creating magazine quality content. I mean, there are some really good ones out there that are creating content that looks parallel to what we were doing at the book.
James:
I think the influencers we saw this, when we started MyHabit, they didn’t want to give us any funding to… They really just wanted the vendors. They didn’t want to give us any funding to promote the company. So we used 300 fashion bloggers and fed them images with promo codes and built the company from zero, started in April to 13 million users and 58 million in revenue by the end of the year using bloggers. That was just bloggers. That’s before Instagram.
DOUG:
It was like before being an influencer was an influencer. And that’s only at 2010. I mean, it’s kind of scary just to say, “Wow, 2010.” It was yes, 11 years ago, but how everything has kind of morphed and changed in the 11 years. It’s really amazing.
James:
Yeah. Yeah. Bezos came in and said, “We like so much what you’ve done, that we’re taking what Moritz and company has done and their techniques and standards and rolling out every division globally.” And so we worked to create all these standards so that everybody could use the same standards and pick up the level of photography and it was rolled out to Amazon globally. So now you see this website that looks like a brand destination.
VERTEX:
Yeah, it’s really incredible what you guys have done with that. So then take me to the transition into Atfluence and how you went from there.
James:
Well, I honestly, I was just seeing… There’s so much fewer large production shoots and what I do as an artist is really a large… I call myself a ringleader really. It’s kind of like herding cats. You have all these people that think they’re the most important people in the world, and they are. You’ve got the best hair stylers, the best makeup person, the best creative director and everybody’s got an attitude and everybody’s got like an agenda and everybody [inaudible 00:12:53] and so you got to get everybody on the same level and everybody happy and do this all within time period. So that’s kind of really that kind of politics of ring leading is kind of… I saw the bigger shoots going away and so we started working with the influencers. So I said, “Okay, well maybe I won’t do the shoots. We’ll just let influencers shoot and we’ll work with the brands and put it together.” And so that’s kind of where we decided to rebrand and go from Moritz and Company to Atfluence Agency. It was really kind of the birth of Atfluence was starting to work with influencers.
VERTEX:
Awesome. Then tell me about how you took Atfluence into the digital space and crypto couture and super-
Speaker 2:
Yeah. That’s an interesting thing. [crosstalk 00:13:48].
James:
More of a [crosstalk 00:13:49].
DOUG:
SuperPopDrop, SuperPopDrop.
DOUG:
SuperPopDrop, yes.
James:
I just was in a real big creative rut after COVID. Right before COVID I had gone in and had cancer and so I’d been debilitated for about a year and then right when they said, “Hey, you’re cancer free. You can go do stuff.” [inaudible 00:14:11]. It was in lockdown for like a couple years really bored. All of a sudden I noticed Doug was like always constantly on his phone. It’s kind of annoying. I was like, “What the fuck are you on the phone for?” And he’s like, “It’s this thing called clubhouse?” And I’m like, “Oh fuck, another social media app.” After a while, I just like, “Okay, can’t beat em join em. Okay I’m going to join on.” So I hopped on. I didn’t even know what an NFT was. So I hopped on and I found this club called nfts.tips. It’s N-F-T-S dot T-I-P-S.
James:
That club is amazing. It’s founded by a lot of people that have this giving spirit. And that’s the only way it works is you go online and you’re not there to really get anything you’re going online to help other people. I learned everything about NFTs and I got fascinated by it and I’m like, “Wow, this is a new way I can create artwork and people can actually see it and don’t have to worry about getting it published in a magazine or do whatever and I can work with some of my old stuff that I can do, composition artwork and some fun stuff.” We did a shoot in Hawaii that I haven’t even touched yet.
James:
So I started doing NFTs and then I launched, and then I got on foundation. Then I realized that there were a bunch of celebrities that were starting to get on NFTs and then some brands. Then I saw some of the brands do well and some of the brands fail and then some of the celebrities do well and some of the celebrities fail. I thought this is a really good product for what we’re doing. This is a space that I’m comfortable in working with celebrities, working with big brands and these guys need help getting people-
VERTEX:
Let’s pause the story really quick for anybody out there who doesn’t know what an NFT is yet. I’m sure most of our audience does and is familiar with it, but let’s just break it down.
DOUG:
Okay. So an NFT is a Non-Fungible Token. It’s a basically essentially a unit of data that’s stored on a digital ledger and it’s used primarily if you think about a token, it’s to prove ownership, authentication of like easily reproducible the items like photos and audio components and things of that nature. So it essentially proves that you have ownership of that, and you see these NFTs not only now in the art space, but you see them now in the video space, you see them in song and media component as well. NFTs, it’s really interesting now how they’re breaking through barriers with just becoming I think initially the whole thought was around art and now where it’s going to, right? So it’s an interesting thing to watch this unfold right now. But for us, we have NFTs around due to wearables, we have NFTs around some art and media space as well as some songs as well.
James:
Kind of, I guess they kind of move this into where SuperPopDrop started. So we were going market, I started working with Miss J to do a drop and we were looking at placing the drop on one of the wearable or [inaudible 00:17:57].
VERTEX:
One of the what? Sorry.
James:
One of the many places you can buy NFTs with a digital wallet. But what I started thinking was Miss J’s audience doesn’t really know about what an NFT is and they don’t have a crypto wallet and very few people out there that actually do have a crypto wallet because… And I consider myself a kind of a tech guy kind of person. I’m the first to jump on the technology train. But even I didn’t have a digital wallet until like the first of this year. I think Doug did before I did, but most people don’t have digital wallets because they’re kind of afraid of it, thinking, “Oh, well I might lose my laptop and lose all my money,” or whatever.
James:
So what we decided to do was we wanted to create a website where we could sell NFTs without having to set up a digital wallet first. That was a big thing. So we partnered with a company called Venley and they have an app that’s works with Shopify. Shopify is one of the largest eCommerce platforms in the world. For even small to medium, even larger size companies, we have a very large brand that uses Shopify. It gives you enterprise solutions to have an ecommerce store. So what we did was we start opened up a store where we can actually purchase an NFTs using just a credit card, Apple Pay, PayPal, Google pay. And it’s also worldwide. So like if you’re in Singapore, things will show up in Singapore dollars and they take, I think they take Ali Express pay or something like that. Their version of Apple pay. So it’s a global thing. So it’s not just selling in the United States, it’s selling in Asia, South America.
DOUG:
They also do take crypto too. So there’s a crypto option and then to appeal to the mass audience, there’s the credit card or the PayPal, Google pay, Shop Pay, like those types of options as well. Which is great.
VERTEX:
Very cool. So then you guys started getting into the digital wearable space from all of this, right? You started seeing-
James:
[crosstalk 00:20:31] part of the next was digital wearables, and we’re still kind of stepping into it and kind of learning about digital fashion. It’s interesting. I mean, sustainable fashion, it really is kind of the next logical step.
DOUG:
It’s a big buzz word, sustainable fashion in the digital metaverse right now.
VERTEX:
Right, right. I mean, fashion is one of the biggest polluters, right? Of our earth.
James:
Yeah. Fast fashion that people just buy an outfit, wear it once, and get rid of it. That’s not good for anybody actually. A lot of chasing these fast fashions leads to overproduction and that stuff goes and gets marked down. It just produces a lot of waste.
VERTEX:
So let’s talk a little bit about this digital wearable. It’s like, where are we using these digital wearables? What is it exactly? I mean, are we all going to be walking around with glasses and we’re going to be seeing each other with this outfit on? How’s it going to happen?
James:
Well, there’s a bunch of different ways you can experience digital fashion. So there’s first we have a product. We have a line with Miss J, the couture line and the Ready to Wear line. Both, if you purchase one of those, you can use the look as digital fashion through your iPhone. It uses the app called the DRESSX AR fashion cam. You can download it on the iPhone store, not on Android yet. Sorry guys. But it’s really cool. It’s a really cool app, and you download it, and then you go to the NFT that you purchased, you touch in your code that opens it up for you, and literally you can hold up the phone or have someone else hold it up to you, and it puts the digital outfit on, it puts the outfit on you. We made some really cool outfits with Miss J. Miss J likes to work with [crosstalk 00:22:34]. Yeah, it’s amazing. There’s this outfit that has this giant sleeves that come around and stuff. It’s really cool.
DOUG:
The technology too is getting better as well. So how this is evolving too, in a little bit more practical applications, you’ll be able to wear these on conference calls or zoom calls, so when you have the digital wearable, you can use it in real life and then also into the metaverse, right? So these digital worlds that are being created, you’ll be able to wear the goggles and go in and attend potentially the met gala, or go in and attend one of the other big events, and you want to look really good, right? You want to look good when you attend, because you’re going to be attending with your friends and you see this kind of evolution of this fashion that’s coming up, like with Post Malone, right? Post Malone did these sneakers and they sold for like upwards of $50,000 for these [crosstalk 00:23:33] sneakers, which is crazy.
VERTEX:
Well, that’s the other thing is like, yeah you’re going to be wearing these to high profile events potentially or in lots of places, and people are paying top dollar or like crazy amounts of money for these things. I mean, can you talk about that? Like how your mind is blown from being in this world of fashion where… I mean, what would sell for $50,000 before? Maybe a watch, but not sneakers.
James:
Right. That’s something that is a phenomenon that is insane. I can’t even totally understand it. Actually, one of the things we were trying to get away from were these insane prices. We’re trying to price things out at affordable levels where everybody can participate. So what we did was on all of the collectable items, the non-fashion items and some of the accessories where we had some flexibility in the price point, we started everything off at a dollar. So literally you could go in and buy a crypto couture NFT for a dollar. And only five people got them for a dollar and then they jumped up to $29, and 10 people got them and they jumped up to 49 dollars and $59, and now I think that first one’s up at what, 295 Doug?
DOUG:
Yeah. Want to it’s maybe close to 400, I think, but I mean the retail, the value or the resale value like on the secondary market’s about 495. That same one that people got for a dollar, which is interesting.
James:
It gives people a lot of opportunity. I mean, a lot of people haven’t really even seen our site yet, but the people that are kind of loyal followers coming in and grabbing these deals, like we put some stuff on it on there for a dollar, it was gone like-
DOUG:
It was gone in 2 seconds. Yeah.
VERTEX:
Yeah. And do you guys get a piece of that? Every time it sells on the secondary market with the way the NFT and the blockchain works, so that’s exciting for you as a creator. Right?
James:
Very exciting. But I think what the metaverse is doing with creators is it’s creating an entire economic shift and an opportunity. That’s kind of what’s great about the metaverse is that you don’t have to be… It doesn’t matter how old or young you are you or how rich or poor you are, if you can figure it out, create an NFT and sell it, you can do the same thing we’re doing. It’s kind of amazing. The metaverse is kind of the great equalizer. It’s kind of the last frontier. When you represent yourself out there in the metaverse, you get to choose your avatar. So we’re not really kind of restricted into all the cultural biases that we’re born into. You can run around with a horse hat on or on a motorcycle or whatever.
DOUG:
It’s like a fresh start.
James:
Really kind of [inaudible 00:26:44] actually.
VERTEX:
What’s happening with 3D artists and where and why should they be even more excited about the metaverse? Because I feel like as a 3D artist, you are kind of limited to films and games and some of these more, I guess, well known spaces, but now with the metaverse, I mean there’s jobs popping up everywhere.
DOUG:
I mean, this is the beginning, right? So just in the amount of time, James and I have been working on this together, it’s amazing to watch how this has evolved. When you think you know something, all of a sudden it quickly changes and the demand for jobs and artists and maybe enhancing the technology and where it’s going and making it more lifelike and the wearables more lifelike. And you think, “Oh, well I’ve done this and now I should do that.” And you get these new terms coming out like figital, right? So you think of, “Oh, what’s a figital item?” A figital is when you receive the physical potentially made to order item and you receive the digital asset as well. So it’s constantly involving, it’s a really, really exciting thing. But when I first started working with James on this, I’m like, “I’m only going to be able to spend so much time, but it’s so fascinating I want to spend more time on it and it’s constantly changing all the time.” So it’s a real adventure.
James:
I know because [inaudible 00:28:15] works with the influencers. So I kind of started off working with this as… So he took over the influencer division, and instead of developing more shoots, I decided to go with the route of NFTs and the clients are all really kind of… I’ve got a lot of people that are wanting to do drops on this website. What’s amazing is people are literally able to create a fortune they’re able to [inaudible 00:28:45] and buy things… Hold onto them for a year and then sell them for a 100, 200 times the value.
Speaker 1:
Oh go ahead.
JAMES:
No, I was just going to say, that’s the nice thing about a digital wearable too, is not only can you utilize it and wear it, but then you can again sell it in the secondary market. Generally for like James said a significant increase, right? So you see things that originally might have gone for a couple hundred dollars, now they’re going for a couple thousand dollars, especially with the limited edition items where they’ve only made a few. Like with Miss J for instance, with the couture collection, there’s only one of one, of certain pieces, which really amps the value.
DOUG:
So when you have a designer, a celebrity, that’s working on this with you, obviously it’s going to amp up the eyes that are on it. But then when someone hears, “Oh, wow, this is a one a kind piece?” It’s people, there’s just a swell of people that really want to get their hands on it, and there’s not a ton of marketing that you really have to do around it because there’s a real need right now where people want to get their hands on these limited edition items right now.
James:
I wanted to take a chance, a moment. I saw these insane amounts of money people are spending on NFTs, and I saw the opportunity to get into it. I realized at this point in time, we have done so much and taken so much in my point in life that I really want to try to give back to the community. Whenever you see a trend that’s making this much money, I think it’s really important to give back some of the money to the community. So we started a cause called the Super Phoenix foundation. That foundation is going to work with kids to teach these digital skills so the kids can actually take their creativity and monetize it and create a income stream off of it. We’re working with homeless kids that have been kicked out of their house because their parents either don’t want them or don’t approve of them or have shunned them, and they’ve just been basically told they’re worthless for their whole lives, and it just takes one person to say, “Hey, you know what, you’re worthy.” And that’s what we’re trying to do with this.
VERTEX:
So tell me a little bit about… You guys are not yourselves digital artists, right? But you are creating this artwork and working with digital craftsmen, if you will, to create these items, right? Designing the poncho or the shirt or the bracelet. Yes?
James:
I definitely would consider myself an artist.
DOUG:
Not a 3D artist though.
James:
I’m not a 3D artist to an extent. I mean, I know some 3D skills, but just because I’m not actually doing it doesn’t mean that’s not my creation. So I work with a lot of artists that I will sketch things and put them together in Photoshop and say, “Hey, this is what I want this to work as a 3D image and model.” And they’ll create the mechanics of it.
VERTEX:
And you’re mostly asking for people with specific skills and marvelous designer, or are you using other programs too for some of your art.
James:
We’re using marvelous designer. There’s also a thing called Cloud 3D, I think. That’s a great runway presentation thing.
JAMES:
What’s the other one?
James:
And they’re probably using Maya to create a fashion show right now.
Speaker 2:
What was the other one I mentioned to you too? It’s so mainstream. I can’t think of it.
James:
Blender.
DOUG:
Oh, blender.
JAMES:
Yeah. Blender, right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Right.
James:
[inaudible 00:32:54] when people learn with. I don’t think it costs anything and it’s a great tool. If you’re out there wondering what to do and to-
DOUG:
Especially like it’s open source and [inaudible 00:33:07].
James:
Yeah. Pick up blender, because you can create anything, that’s the cool thing. You can build anything. And within a metaverse, that’s layered on top of the world, you can build something and somebody can hold up their phone and go, “Oh my gosh, there’s this person’s house or this person’s art.”
JAMES:
I mean, and the technology again is getting so much more advanced, like where you can actually place like for Art Basel this year, like we placed pieces of art virtually, so if someone actually went to that physical place and held up their iPhone, they could actually see the image that we-
VERTEX:
Amazing.
JAMES:
Specifically there. I mean, it was really, really cool.
James:
We did a thing called the Crypto Couture Cherry, which is kind of funny, but it kind of represented, we said, “Pop your cherry at basil.” So it was basically saying, “Hey, this is the perfect piece to buy your first NFT.” And literally that’s kind of what the gist of SuperPopDrop is. It’s the perfect place to come and buy an NFT, because NFTs, they’re hard to understand. It’s hard to wrap your head around what an NFT is about really knowing what it is technically. But I’m a doer kind of person, I don’t really understand something till I do it, so I created this website so you can go in and buy a piece of digital fashion or a NFT, a collectible NFT for a low price point from anywhere from a dollar to maybe 49, 99, $150. And that’s a really low price point for an NFT. But you’re able to buy that through Apple pay, PayPal, whatever, and then you get an email and that email then prompts you to log in and create a password and boom, you’ve got a digital log.
DOUG:
I was going to say why your student… Like why people listening to this should be so excited about these skills and how we’re sourcing things in the process of doing this is that, again, said this a few times, it’s the beginning and the skills are so high in demand right now, as far as creating. Because again, when you think about other types of artists like photographers, or maybe even a creative director or a brand director, like one of our friends is now the president of Dolce & Gabbana, right? So they just did a set of these as well.
DOUG:
But it’s about, yes, they have a vision and then it’s up to the next person to kind of be the sketch out that vision of what it looks like. And then that’s another piece. And then it’s then transforming this in the digital world. How is that going to look? And then as a collaboration, like working on the flow of it and what the avatars are going to look like, and like all these other pieces to it and kind of where it goes. The demand and the resource demand, again, what did they say? Point zero .0007 or something of-
James:
.00009% of the [inaudible 00:36:25].
DOUG:
Yeah. Understands what an NFT. You see those skill sets only going to become so much more in demand as time goes on. I know for us, especially we’re thinking about these next collections that we want to do and thinking about, “Okay, well, what resources that we want to do.” And we’re gearing up something for fashion week and we want to kind of enhance the whole vision of that as well. Can we do like a popup and can we do something where it’s on screen and what type of avatars do we want to use, and like all these different kind of aspects and, “Okay, let’s think about the clothing. What are we going to do? Is it going to be inspired by something?” It’s a big teamed effort, I would say, especially like when you’re designing something in the physical world.
VERTEX:
You need seamstresses and pattern makers and dyers and all of those things. So we now have all of those things in the digital world, I guess.
DOUG:
Exactly. If people are going to have specialties in all different things, then people going to be really good at designing things and people are going to be really good at implementing. Again, it’s such an exciting place to be because anyone that’s learning these skills now, I guarantee you, the metaverse is only going to continue to grow. You see these other worlds and big companies, like we were at something for NFT.NYC where one of the women that was on the panel, she’s working with Pepsi and she’s working with all these major companies that are heavily investing into the metaverse to work on the eCommerce operations and how that will be affected by these new worlds. So it’s kind like this big change I think that will be really exciting.
VERTEX:
Yeah. Well, for anybody out there as well who doesn’t really comprehend what the metaverse is, how would you guys define it as you see it right now? Because it’s ever evolving, like we said too, but-
James:
It’s ever evolving and the metaverse is almost like it’s the fifth dimension. They talk about like three to third dimension, fourth dimension. It’s another dimension layered on top of reality. A lot of the worlds are based on maps to the world, and then a lot of the worlds are just based off of their own world. So you can go in and visit different worlds within the metaverse. Unfortunately, Facebook is now rebranding as Meta, which is to be a big… People, don’t confuse metaverse with Facebook. Meta not metaverse. They stole that name FYI. They just took the name. Seriously. They took that name from a small company and started using it and just [inaudible 00:39:16].
DOUG:
Well, but like for the metaverse too, it’s James mentioned it’s these worlds and within those worlds, there are villages and there’s stores and there’s homes and the avatars actually live in this world, and you can create those experiences like the MoMA or any kind of different exhibit or whatever it is. You can join your friends, if you have the Oculus on, or you’re using your iPhone.
James:
Don’t even need an Oculus though.
DOUG:
No, I know you can do with your iPhone.
James:
[crosstalk 00:39:44] metaverse with your iPhone.
DOUG:
Exactly. Or in computer. It’s cool because you see these real, the metaverse is actually kind of mimicking real life, but even better in a lot of ways, because you do, like James said, you get to create your avatar, you get to figure out what is this that I want to have on my piece of land that you’ve actually been gifted or purchased. And the kind of the sky is the limit. When we were also at NFT.NYC, there’s a woman there that was saying that she built a house, and of course there’s a lot of these skills that are transferable into all different aspects of design and build with this, and she flipped her house for $500,000.
VERTEX:
That is crazy. So why do you think people are spending so much money on these things?
James:
It’s rush to the market to grab the first… Anytime you have a new market where there’s new anything, people are wanting to grab something and make money with it really. That’s exactly what’s happening and that’s kind of what’s so exciting about what we’re doing is we’re offering NFTs that are really created and designed for everybody, not just the people [inaudible 00:41:10] $50,000 on a pair of digital sneakers. Yeah, some of the outfits are very expensive. We do have other couture outfits are going to start off at around I think 2 ETH which is like $10,000. But that outfit, a lot of work went into that outfit. You also get personal experience with Miss J. I was a little bit kind of hesitant about the couture thing, but Miss J really wanted to do it and [inaudible 00:41:43] wanted to do it. It just creates the mystique of the one of one type deal. So one person’s going to own this outfit and that’s it.
DOUG:
If people can [inaudible 00:41:58] in New York, can you hear the sirens?
VERTEX:
Oh yeah. I was wondering what that was.
James:
I was going to say also to-
DOUG:
To James’s point that he said that journey or how you’re selling things as well. People that are in marketing, collaborating with these designers and everything else, it’s about the experience that you’re giving the customer. So when they did this, they had the idea of, “Okay, let’s do an online fitting with Miss J for the person that purchases the outfit.” So how cool is that? So they’re going to be doing that, and by the way, there’s also a chance to go to fashion week to a show with Miss J. So you think about the market-
VERTEX:
An actual show or a digital show?
James:
No. An actual show. This is in the real world. We’re actually auctioning off an NFT that represents the ability of you to come to New York and meet Miss J and go to a fashion show in front row during Fashion Week.
JAMES:
Wow. That’s very exciting. It’s also though like you can, for those people who can’t travel, maybe they’re too far, I mean I think that digital experience at this fashion show is going to be just as good as the actual one, right?
James:
Right. Exactly. Exactly. So we’re going to have a digital fashion show this year that’s going to be really kind of exciting to be part of. I think this year’s going to be the first year we’re trying to get listed in New York fashion week, but we’ll see.
VERTEX:
Oh, that’s exciting. Tell me a little bit about the mechanics of creating a digital fashion show. Like you mentioned Maya before, so you guys are kind of the creative vision behind it, and then you’re getting some technical skilled artists to go in and build the runway physically. Tell me a little bit about that and how that process works between you and your collaborators.
James:
We’re actually getting, then we go in and build the runway and build the environment that is within the fashion show. That’s kind of where I get to play creative person. So the runway and the space that crypto couture is shown in, crypto couture showroom so to say, is based off of one of my favorite buildings in the world, which is just the [inaudible 00:44:28].
DOUG:
Yes. In Paris. Is it the one?
James:
No, no, no. Yeah, yeah. It’s got influence from the Grand Palais, but it also it’s based off of the, subway stopped this, I think it’s the [inaudible 00:44:44].
VERTEX:
Oh, of course. Oh, okay.
James:
I’m sorry. Yeah. It’s this amazing building that’s a skeleton of framework like this and it has glass panes in between framework. That kind of environment as that kind of shell environment, it’s kind of a natural look and you can see the natural light come in and then we put a glossy floor on the bottom of it, and then we actually mirror glass that, so the space is actually a giant light kind of two shells put together. So everything’s mirrored.
VERTEX:
So then the designers who are going to walk down your runway or have their models run, walk down your runway. So now the artists have to also create the models and the clothes as well?
James:
Yeah, absolutely.
DOUG:
Yeah, I was going to say, you have to think about the both kinds of experiences too, the online experience and if you do have a physical experience as well. Like, do you have screen set ups so that an avatar starts the fashion show and then a physical person walks through the screen? What are [crosstalk 00:46:01] things wearing the clothes? Like, how transformative can you make that experience? But also thinking about like, with the design that James was just mentioning, was that… Okay, so when someone either is looking at this in their iPhone or through those Oculus glasses, what’s that experience going to be, and you’re right like you think about the avatars and how do you select the avatars, how do you select the different types of clothing that are going to work well on this and what are the finishing touches, and you’re going to have designers and that are working within these programs that are really, really great at designing maybe [inaudible 00:46:37] but also maybe specifically certain types of clothes, or the avatars as well.
James:
I think in the future, not this go around, but soon, I mean, what we basically wanted to do was we wanted to cast real people as avatars and use them as models and have them actually transfer the clothing, have them put on them on and model it in a space of Decentraland. So you actually have like you might be a 13 year old girl or a 59 year old man, but they’re the supermodel in the runway walking in.
DOUG:
Oh, wow. And then imagine the virtual casting that you have to have.
JAMES:
I wanted to do like America’s next top model.
James:
[crosstalk 00:47:28].
JAMES:
I wanted to do [inaudible 00:47:29]. Which would be really cool to do. It’s just something [inaudible 00:47:35].
DOUG:
Well. I mean, it really does open the playing field to everyone in the world to participate, right? In a different way.
Speaker 2:
And these are skills people can learn too. I mean, again, no one’s really behind at this point because it’s so new and there’s going to be skill sets that are needed and that are transferable from the real world into the metaverse world as well. So you can take those and if you maybe don’t know it, learn it, then bring it over, see how creative you can be because the only judge is yourself. People are either going to adopt it or they’re going to love it or whatever, but your worst critic is going to be yourself.
DOUG:
The playing field here is there’s really no set thing that’s either right or wrong. So use your creativity, play with the program, do this kind of stuff, because adoption through community, it’s going to be a huge thing. Using like Clubhouse, you work in Twitter spaces, or there’s certain platforms where if you’re working within the world of NFTs, those are the platforms you definitely want to be on, be a part of that community, because so many successful NFT drops are based on communities. So it’s really that message that’s driving through whether you’re holding a physical in a digital event or whatever it is, so much of the successes of that will be driven by your community.
VERTEX:
So if you are an artist who’s got some of these skills or you’re learning some of these skills, like how do you find these jobs in the fashion metaverse space? What are some of the best ways to find people like you?
James:
Just networking. We’re constantly on the look for 3D artists.
DOUG:
Write us. Write us. Write us.
James:
This is where the land of opportunity is. Literally, if someone sends me a resume with 3D portfolio and it’s good enough, I’ll hire them in a minute.
VERTEX:
Wow. What are you looking for in their portfolio?
James:
I’m looking for a sense of creativity, perfect execution, the details are very important to me, and just overall skills of being able to create something. Whenever I work with somebody, I don’t want them to do exactly as I say, I want them to go along with what I say.
DOUG:
And have fun. You want people to have fun too, however-
James:
How our work have succeeded. Yeah. Hire people that are smarter than you and more creative than you and surround people like that-
VERTEX:
So even if you don’t have a fashion blazer in your portfolio, you still want to see their work because there’s like you’re looking for their eye, their vision.
JAMES:
Absolutely.
James:
In a way. [inaudible 00:50:44].
DOUG:
And like avatar… Right. I mean, there’s going to be standard things that are out there, like with the phone you could create an avatar of yourself or do those kinds of things. But we want to think beyond that, like what are the ideas that people have to bring in. Kind of going to make, give, be that differentiator when people either come to our destination or they wear our clothes, the digital wearables, or wear one of the accessories, it’s that kind of level of creativity and what somebody brings to the table is really going to differentiate us as a brand.
VERTEX:
So will you, if let’s say you buy a crypto couture dress, can you put that on your character inside your game, as well as in Decentraland in all these different places? Maybe in your zoom call or is the technology not quite there yet?
James:
It’s almost there. Basically what you’re talking about are digital wearables within the metaverse. To have that work, you have got to know which world you want to belong to. So a wearable in Decentraland doesn’t necessarily work in Sandbox. So that’s the one big problem right now is that you have to buy into a one world and your accessories are good for one space. What we decided with crypto couture was to hold off on saying, “Okay, we’re going to do all of our wearables in Decentraland.” Then you walk into just Decentraland. So everything’s so new right now and really we’re creating a collection that is something you want to buy in. It’s the first of its time. It’s this historic collection. So 10 years from now, these are going to be worth the fortune.
James:
So what we’re doing is we’re waiting till we have a community of a thousand people, and then once we have a thousand people, we’re going to get everybody to vote and give us input on which world they want their wearable in. Once we have a consensus vote of where people want their wearables, we’ll deliver the 3D file as a wearable. That way you can also, in every NFT, you can request the wearable file, which is that .GLB file. And we can airdrop that to you and you can make it work in what world you want to make it work in.
DOUG:
So they are transferable, but you mentioned the zoom and the conference calls. The technology almost there. We thought it was going to be out by the end of November with some of the partners that we’re working with, especially like DRESSX, but they’re telling us that that’s coming so it will be here soon enough. That’s really people get excited when-
James:
It’s there actually. I mean, the company that we’re working with, when we’re on a zoom call, they’ve either got [crosstalk 00:53:48]-
DOUG:
Yeah. It’s just not out totally yet.
James:
And it works and it’s actually really freaking cool. You can experience some of this technology if you just go on Snapchat.
DOUG:
Yeah, exactly.
JAMES:
And you can think, “But this is now designer.” Like that’s the big differentiator between Snapchat and something like this that we’re creating because there’s designers back it and that kind of make the demand behind it. The level of detail that people are spending and really jazzing up the accessories of the dresses and the flow and the mechanics of it really is creating that space now, which is, I mean, it is just very exciting. Then as far as the transferable of the worlds piece, I think we’ll see better adoption as well of things that hopefully will be able to go to the different places, when you purchase that NFT. But on the flip side of that, if things kind of, for now, we’re only designated for one world increases that demand, right? So as far as the volume and the artists that we need and everything else, so it’s a big thing.
VERTEX:
Wow, this has been so exciting guys. I really, really enjoyed the chat. We’re going to definitely make sure to link all these places in the bottom notes of this podcast, but I’m excited for-
DOUG:
Yeah, we’re excited.
JAMES:
…. people to find you guys as well, especially all of the 3D artists out there and finding new avenues to be able to use their skillset and talent, the metaverse is very, very exciting in regards to that. So again, thank you for educating us.
DOUG:
Yeah it does. Thank you for having us. [crosstalk 00:55:31].
James:
You’re an artist and you want to do a collection and you have some work and you want to do a collection with this, there’s actually a link in the very bottom of SuperPopDrop, I’d like to request to do a collection, send us a link.
DOUG:
Or if you just want to work on a project with us to get the experience, let us know.
James:
Then also join our community. We’re recruiting, wanting new people to join our community and let us know where we want to take this whole brand.
VERTEX:
Yeah. You guys are on Discord right now.
DOUG:
Yep. Yep.
James:
Yeah we’re on Discord, we’re on SuperPopDrop, @superpopdrop on Twitter, @superpopdrop on Instagram, and superpopdrop.com
VERTEX:
Wonderful. You guys. It was lovely lovely lovely, your story.
JAMES:
Yeah. Thank you so much for having us.
DOUG:
Thank you.
JAMES:
We appreciate it.
VERTEX:
We’ll do another one of these as well.
James:
[inaudible 00:56:34] in Austin too.
DOUG:
Yeah. Maybe we’ll be with you next time because we could come to the ranch, but it’s exciting, because again, we’ve highlighted that point that it’s only the beginning right now. Some people might feel like they’re behind, but they’re not. We’re figuring it out right now and so hopefully when we get together next, we’ll be able to say, “Ooh, this is where we started and this is where we are at now.”
VERTEX:
Right. Well, let’s definitely get together in Austin. Next time you guys.
James:
Yes.
VERTEX:
All right. Thank you, have a wonderful rest of your day.
DOUG:
Thanks again.
James:
Bye.
VERTEX:
Bye bye.
JAMES:
Bye.